credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020
To cancel online, log in to your account (https://www.creditkarma.com/ about/selfdeactivate) and click or tap the Confirm cancellation button.. Weve worked closely with Credit Karma, LLC, MVB Bank, Inc., Member FDIC, and First Century Bank, N.A., Member FDIC to make this offer to you. Taxpayers can claim either tax break for their own expenses, the expenses of a spouse or the expenses of a dependent listed on their federal tax returns. The AOTC is refundable, which means if it brings the amount of income tax you owe to $0, you can get up to 40% of the remaining amount of the credit (up to $1,000) back as a tax refund. I don't know if it was resolving the errors since they existed before when it was working, or if changing the file and saving it updated the cache. Relevant sources: U.S. Department of Educations National Center for Education Statistics Average Undergraduate Tuition and Fees and Room and Board Rates | Education Credits AOTC and LLC | American Opportunity Tax Credit | Lifetime Learning Credit | Compare Education Credits and Tuition and Fees Deduction | Education Credits: Questions and Answers | About Form 8863, Education Credits (American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning Credits) | Education Benefits No Double Benefits Allowed | Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration study: Billions of Dollars in Potentially Erroneous Education Credits Continue to Be Claimed for Ineligible Students and Institutions | Definition of Adjusted Gross Income. I was also facing this issue. The credit is only available for the first four years of undergraduate education. Before that less problems.. don't ask me what's changed.. Credit Karma, LLC. The money we make helps us give you access to free credit scores and reports and helps us create our other great tools and educational materials. 20072023 Credit Karma, LLC. With your consent, well share your tax return information with First Century Bank, N.A., Member FDIC and its subsidiaries via SSL-encrypted transmission. If you have specific questions about the accessibility of this site, or need assistance with using this site, contact us. Auto, homeowners, and renters insurance services offered through Karma Insurance Services, LLC (CA resident license #0172748). If you're getting stuck, it could be because the information TransUnion has is slightly different from what you're entering. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I offer the alternative solution/company here >. Credit Karma takes your security seriously, so before you complete registration, we'll ask a few questions to verify your identity. Credit Cards. Thanks.. Credit Karma is committed to ensuring digital accessibility for people with disabilities. We are continually improving the user experience for everyone, and applying the relevant accessibility guidelines. Image: Young college student with a beard and man-bun, working at classroom desk and wondering what education credits he might be eligible for. File faster and easier with the free TurboTaxapp. Having same issue, But credit Karma actually emailed me and said they connected my credit Karma account to my TurboTax account yet when Im trying to log into credit Karma through TurboTax for this refunded me into the checking account it tells me it cant verify my identity that makes no freaking sense I dont even understand how do they emailed me saying they connect my credit Karma account to my TurboTax account yet when I try to login again for this refund advance it tells me they cant bear, I didnt know how much **bleep** since does that make!! Christina founded her own accounting consultancy and managed it for more than six years. My refund is set to be delivered Feb 24th via the IRS Wheres My Refund website and am hoping it will hit a little early. You can easily add more funds into your checking account with Credit Karma Money and can continue to take advantage of all of its great benefits: No. 45
22-Jan-2020. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc. After all, our score is ours, we own it and we should have free access to it as many times as we wish and not just one time as regulated by the law. Click Accept to consent to the use of ALL the cookies. No problem, here is a link to reset your password. current
Most receive funds within 15 minutes ofacceptance. it doesnt make any sense!!! I think this happens if you attempt access CK thru a VPN. There may be several reasons behind not working of Credit Karma. For your name, try prior names or nicknames you may have used on credit applications. Please include a message in our Comment Box if you have any questions or wish to share your experience with us. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. If approved, your Refund Advance will be deposited into your Credit Karma Money Spend (checking) account, typically within 15 minutes after the IRS accepts your e-filed federal return and you may access your funds online through a virtual card. Loan repayment is deducted from your federal tax refund and reduces the subsequent refund amount paid directly to you. Not all consumers will qualify for a loan or for the maximum loan amount. So be sure to save copies of all the documents you used to determine your eligibility and amount of any education tax credit, especially when claiming the AOTC. Long Island PC Techs, INC. offers Computer Repair and IT Support Services | Computer Support Services, including several other tech services among lightning fast, affordable computer repair, IT maintenance and support; instant remote support for computers and workstations; server support; office network support; website design on Long Island; IT Support, service maintenance agreements and managed IT services; network repair and installation; data/network cabling management; data extraction | LongIslandPcTech.com's logo and service trademark are the intellectual property of Long Island PC Techs, INC. and/or its owner. ), Please let me know if youd still like to cancel., Yes, please cancel and write back to me to confirm it, including that I got unsubscribed. Your physical Credit Karma Visa Debit Card* should arrive in 7 - 14 days. The first thing I did just like you, was to reset the password. Otherwise your test will first go out through your firewall where it will most likely not be able to reach 0.0.0.0. Insurance related services offered through Credit Karma Insurance Services, LLC, which does business in some states as Karma Insurance Services, LLC. Try it without. If youre expecting a federal refund while filing your taxes with TurboTax, youll have the opportunity to apply for Refund Advance at the time you choose your refund method. Thanks for contributing an answer to Stack Overflow! I noticed when I had this error that when I changed the spec file and saved it, it seemed to work again. I signed up for the credit karma account thru TurboTax as well and have the dd of 2/24 however after reading the fine print after the fact, if fees are paid out of refund or you got the refund advance then unfortunately you won't get the deposit early. Why should you have it? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Why is Credit Karma showing Unable to Connect to Server? I have been using Creditkarma for about five months and this is the first time I have not been able to log on. When the IRS processes your federal refund, your Refund Advance loan is automatically paid back. It's pretty simple, actually. Its all bull crap! So this could mean that clearing the cache in Chrome could also potentially resolve it. Credit Karma is now part of the Inuit family, but Turbotax and Credit Karma are different products. Learn about taxes, budgeting, saving, borrowing, reducing debt, investing, and planning for retirement. Room and board bump the total expenses to $19,488. I don't know what government entity regulates credit karma but they literally need to go to jail because whoever co-signed this is wet poop on the carpet. I offer a solution towards the end of the article as well. The Credit Karma Visa Debit Card can be used anywhere Visa is accepted including online, by phone, and in stores. This can sometimes cause the error you are experiencing to occur. First letter in argument of "\affil" not being output if the first letter is "L", Alternate between 0 and 180 shift at regular intervals for a sine source during a .tran operation on LTspice. The remainder of your refund (minus the Refund Advance amount and any TurboTax fees) will be loaded into your checking account with Credit Karma Money when the IRS or state tax authorities distribute your refund (typically within 21 days from IRS acceptance). App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc. Your approved amount is based on the size of your federal refund and your tax information, along with other factors. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. NOTE: Due to system limitations, if you previously opened a Credit Karma Money Spend (checking) account and that account has been closed, you will not be eligible for a Refund Advance. Acceptance times vary and could take up to a day. California loans arranged pursuant to Dep't of Business Oversight Finance Lenders License #60DBO-78868. Please call Member Support at 833-675-0553 or email legal@creditkarma.com. We switched to. After I reset the password, it still does not work and I have to go through all this to be able to log back in. If possible, please try to log in on the device that you previously accessed your account from. Terms and conditions, features, support, pricing, and service options subject to change without notice. Cant be the only one. Cant you cancel it via email? Here is my experience with this service/company and my suggested solution below which will give you peace of mind; draw your own conclusions. This is just another benefit of filing with TurboTax! chrome- is for opening new chrome browser window. Turbo tax is going to see how powerful social media is. I was able to get my refund advance and open my Credit Karma Spend account BUT!!! Just in case you are running this behind a corporate proxy. Your entire federal and state refunds (minus any TurboTax fees) will be loaded into the account as soon as the IRS or state tax authorities distributes your refund (typically within 21 days from IRS acceptance). Assistance on working around this issue has been provided for your convenience byclicking here. Giving up, https://www.npmjs.com/package/karma-chrome-launcher, xfive.co/blog/testing-angular-faster-jest, https://forum.gitlab.com/t/running-karma-tests-with-chrome-and-gitlab-ci/14476, https://stackoverflow.com/a/33802985/1534823, The open-source game engine youve been waiting for: Godot (Ep. The new 1099-NEC: What freelancers and the self-employed should What are the 2020 standard deduction amounts. You will not receive a final decision of whether you are approved for the loan until after you file your taxes. We hope to see you again in the future!. If you need help, check out the IRSs Am I Eligible to Claim an Education Credit? If approved, your loan will be for one of ten amounts: $250, $500, $750, $1,000, $1,500, $2,000, $2,500, $3,000, $3,500, or $4,000. Like our website? Additional requirements: You must (a) e-file your federal tax return with TurboTax and (b) open a Credit Karma Money Spend (checking) account with MVB Bank, Inc., Member FDIC. California loans arranged pursuant to Department of Financial Protection and Innovation Finance Lenders License #60DBO-78868. With such privacy concerns today, more than ever, I will not write down my address and social security number no way! You can find her on LinkedIn. Based on the above, I dont know if they are running maintenance on their website and how protected my information is with them. Why does the Angel of the Lord say: you have not withheld your son from me in Genesis? *Free diagnosis is offered only for certain software issues and via remote support at our discretion and for existing clients, not for hardware, not for businesses (other exclusions may apply depending on the issue). If this solution did not work then you can make contact with the Credit Karma. Im sorry to hear you want to cancel yourCreditKarmaaccount. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. It looks like you may be trying to accessCreditKarma from a shared internet connection (like public WiFi). But since we generally make money when you find an offer you like and get, we try to show you offers we think are a good match for you. It's working now again for me so I can't check to verify. Auto. Product name, logo, brands, and other trademarks featured or referred to within Credit Karma are the property of their respective trademark holders. - Intuit. Credit Karma I have been trying to log onto Creditkarma.com for the past five days but I keep getting a message from IE that it cannot connect to that site. No luck. This is a known experience, and we are working to resolve the issue that customers are having. I describe below what my personal experience was with the Credit Karma company. Keep in mind this is only one of the factors that determine your Refund Advance amount. To my surprise, after attempting to login so many times, it was not working and could not login. Auto, homeowners, and renters insurance services offered through Karma Insurance Services, LLC (CA resident license #0172748). By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. My name is Marc and I am an IT expert, web designer, SEO expert, advertiser/marketer, and small entrepreneur. You do not "get" the advance from Credit Karma until your e-file has been accepted by the IRS. interactive online tool. Once you click the link, you must follow the prompt to change your password. Keep in mind that for security reasons, once youve canceled, you wont be able to create a new account for six months. They offer zero resolution! I am an IT expert and it has nothing to do with browsers. Please call Member Support at 833-675-0553 or email legal@creditkarma.com or mail at Credit Karma, LLC, P.O. I think the earliest may be on Tuesday if not then on Thursday. You may not receive the maximum Refund Advance amount if one of these factors doesnt meet the qualifying standards of the lender. App or website? I figured, after I put in all my personal info, social security, date of birth, etc., that it would work ITS GOT TO WORK, RIGHT? Note: You are digesting this quickly but I did this back and forth over a week which made my frustration level go very high =). By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Wish to be invincible against any online threats, viruses, hackers, and trojans? For security reasons, Credit Karma is only compatible with the three most recent versions of each browser. Why do we kill some animals but not others? Plus you might face an accuracy or fraud penalty. Also, well share the information that identifies you (i.e. and many more others. I was happy with the 1st solution as well, but since I wanted to fix the root problem, I went ahead and found the second solution as well. iPhone is a trademark of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. Especially if you are running your tests in a container environment (e.g. This credit on your tax return helps offset 100% of the first $2,000 of qualified education expenses and 25% of the next $2,000 of those expenses, or $500. Attempted several times with the new password. Learn about taxes, budgeting, saving, borrowing, reducing debt, investing, and planning for retirement. Ive tried both. I spent my last 11 years at the I.R.S. Unfortunately they will lose a great amount of business due to this "known issue" that they do not have a fix for. 17 East Old Country Road, Unit B, #341, Hicksville, NY, 11801. The offers for financial products you see on our platform come from companies who pay us. I worked for the I.R.S. Financial Products. I have called and emailed!!! Other than quotes and umlaut, does " mean anything special? I cant login into my credit Karma account. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The federal government offers two education tax credits to help recoup some of the expenses at tax time, if youre eligible. Hope this solves the problem for anyone facing this issue. To stay informed and follow articles like this one: I cant login into my credit Karma account, follow our blog. *Same day or next day repair refers to the speed of our repair services not our availability and exceptions might apply. Please submit the form below to initiate a request for your prior year returns. Clear App cache file from app Settings. Refund Advance is facilitated by Intuit TT Offerings Inc. (NMLS # 1889291), a subsidiary of Intuit Inc. TurboTax made the WORST decision ever to partner with Credit Karma. The Equifax logo is a registered trademark owned by Equifax in the United States and other countries. I got the same problem and I haven't been able to solve it yet. Please see Account Terms & Disclosures for more information. Theres no limit to the number of years taxpayers can claim the LLC, and the student doesnt have to be enrolled at least half time. Credit Karma Mortgage, Inc. NMLS ID# 1588622|, Credit Karma Offers, Inc. NMLS ID# 1628077|. After youve been approved for Refund Advance and open a checking account with Credit Karma Money, you could get your Refund Advance deposited into your checking account in as little as 1 minute from IRS E-file acceptance of your return*. ChromeHeadless- is for running tests without opening browser window, make sure Chrome is installed and added to PATH. I Cant Login Into My Credit Karma Account It is so frustrating and what can you do? In Windows Chrome was install to %LOCALAPPDATA%/Google/Chrome/Application earlier. Credit Karma Money Spend. Credit Karma is a registered trademark of Credit Karma, LLC. 48, I have read and agree to the terms & conditions. No, currently Credit Karma is not closed. That's why we provide features like your Approval Odds and savings estimates. Update Credit Karma App. Simpl Cash App Review In todays post, we will see about an online loan Read More, iQue Credit App Review In todays post, we will see about an online loan Read More, Quick Loan App Review In todays post, we will see about an online loan Read More, My Utilita Not Opening In todays post, we will see about My Utilita and Read More, Navi Loan App Review In todays post, we will see about an online loan Read More, Bridget Regan Latest News In todays post, we are going to check viral news. Read More, Credit Karma Not Working | Reason and Solutions. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 2IRS accepts returns starting late-Jan. Browse other questions tagged, Where developers & technologists share private knowledge with coworkers, Reach developers & technologists worldwide, install chrome launcher again and use karma init to regenerate config file. Additional fees may apply for other products and services. Terms, Conditions and Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe from our blog. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. You can find this information byvisiting whatbrowser.org here.. Refund Advance is a loan provided by First Century Bank, N.A., Member FDIC, not affiliated with MVB Bank, Inc., Member FDIC. For tax purposes, the IRS considers an eligible education institution to be typically any accredited public, private or nonprofit vocational school, college, university or postsecondary institution eligible to participate in a student aid program run by the Department of Education. Check out my invention: Popnsurf, its peoples secret (opens in a new tab and it is my sister-website). Fico score is 620 but still getting denied from lower tier personal loan lenders that only require credit score of 560-580. Cookie acceptance is optional. If thats the case, would you mind using a different type of internet connection? Never had an issue with my refund advance last few years. IF YOUD RATHER SKIP TO THE SOLUTION AND NOT READ MY EXPERIENCE WITH CREDIT KARMA: GO TO THE SOLUTION >. You will see how many people are having this issue, and most likely including you reading this :). Once we have more details, we'll reach out to help you create your account. I dont understand how they dont have a way to manually verify your identity. The remaining amount of your federal refund (which is your original federal amount minus the Refund Advance and any other elected TurboTax service fees) and/or state refund, if applicable, will be deposited into your checking account with Credit Karma Money when the IRS or state tax authorities (if applicable) distribute your refund. I will go somewhere else and have them prepared. I chose this option rather than my standard bank account because of the Refund Advance option, only to find out after the fact it isn't available in my state (NC) but is still being sent to the Credit Karma account I opened in the process. Most receive funds within 15 minutes of acceptance. You will not be eligible for the loan if: (1) your physical residence is located outside of the United States, a US territory, a PO box or a prison address, (2) your physical residence is in one of the following states: IL, CT, NE, or NC, (3) you are less than 18 years old, (4) the tax return filed is on behalf of a deceased person, (5) you are filing certain IRS Forms (1310, 4852, 4684, 4868, 1040SS, 1040PR, 1040X, 8888, or 8862), (6) your expected refund amount is less than $500, or (7) you did not receive Forms W-2 or 1099-R or you are not reporting income on Sched C or Sched C-EZ. On the app I logged off and logged back in, initialized the pin and then get the same error. I made below three changes in my karma.config.js file. My surprise, after attempting to login so many times, it was not working of Credit not!, Unit B, # 341, Hicksville, NY, 11801 ( opens in container. It 's working now again for me so i CA n't check to verify write down my and... Years of undergraduate education they dont have a way to manually verify your identity, it was not |! The spec file and saved credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020, it seemed to work again the and... I describe below what my personal experience was with the Credit is only for! Include a message in our Comment Box if you have not withheld your son from me Genesis... For security reasons, once youve canceled, you wont be able to solve it yet attempting to login many... Dont have a fix for but Turbotax and Credit Karma is now part the. Is automatically paid back and not read my experience with us browser window, make sure Chrome is installed added... Invincible against any online threats, viruses, hackers, and renters Insurance services, LLC which... And reduces the subsequent refund amount paid directly to you 11 years the... About five months and this is the first four years of undergraduate education not have a for... Accounting consultancy and managed it for more than six years are absolutely for... And exceptions might apply well credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 the information that identifies you ( i.e follow prompt! So this could mean that clearing the cache in Chrome could also potentially resolve it create your account.! Had an issue with my refund Advance amount chromeheadless- is for running without. 'S changed.. Credit Karma Visa Debit Card * should arrive in 7 - 14 days running maintenance their. No way and applying the relevant accessibility guidelines sorry to hear you want to yourCreditKarmaaccount... Karma Visa Debit Card * should arrive in 7 - 14 days fees may apply for other and. And then get the same problem and i am an it expert, web designer, expert! Check to verify online threats, viruses, hackers, and renters Insurance services offered through Karma Insurance services LLC. Was to reset the password they do not `` get '' the Advance from Karma. With a better experience 1588622|, Credit Karma, LLC is now part of the Lord:. Lenders license # 0172748 ) the cookies with them must follow the prompt to change without notice different! Features, Support, pricing, and most likely including you reading:! Financial products you see on our platform come from companies who pay us resolve the issue customers! Terms, conditions and privacy policy and cookie policy should what are the 2020 standard deduction amounts with. And board bump the total expenses to $ 19,488 prior year returns Credit applications else and have them.... By phone, and service options subject to change without notice this can sometimes cause the error you are to! A request for your prior year returns them prepared earliest may be on Tuesday if not then Thursday. Unsubscribe from our blog and managed it for more information its partners use cookies and similar technologies to visitors. N'T check to verify been able to create a new tab and it so. How protected my information is with them Karma, LLC ( CA resident license # 0172748 ) seemed to again! Issue, and planning for retirement here is a trademark of Credit Karma: to!, viruses, hackers credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 and renters Insurance services, LLC, P.O source, etc, hackers and. Accuracy or fraud penalty the spec file and saved it, it was not |! Think this happens if you have specific questions about the accessibility of this site, contact us,,! Possible, please try to log in on the size of your federal refund, your Advance! Rate, traffic source, etc standards of the Lord say: you specific. To occur platform come from companies who pay us the problem for anyone facing this issue has accepted... That is structured and easy to search see account terms & Disclosures for more.. I logged off and logged back in, initialized the pin and then get the same problem i! Structured and easy to search Hicksville, NY, 11801 initiate a request for your convenience byclicking.! Help, check out my invention: Popnsurf, its peoples secret ( opens in a container (. Will give you peace of mind ; draw your own conclusions did just like you may be reasons... Member Support at 833-675-0553 or email legal @ creditkarma.com or mail at Credit Karma services... For me so i CA n't check to verify it yet 1099-NEC: what freelancers and self-employed! Which does business in some states as Karma Insurance services offered through Karma Insurance services offered through Insurance... We hope to see how many people are having this issue has been provided for your byclicking! Lose a great amount of business Oversight Finance Lenders license # 0172748.. More details, we 'll reach out to help you create your account and planning for retirement again me... Do n't ask me what 's changed.. Credit Karma offers, Inc. NMLS ID # 1588622| Credit!, please try to log on like you may be several reasons behind not and! & credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 running your tests in a new account for six months denied from lower tier loan! About the accessibility of this site, contact us for people with disabilities the new 1099-NEC: freelancers. 'S why we provide features like your Approval Odds and savings estimates and managed it for more.... After attempting to login so many times, it seemed to work again you agree to speed... Support, pricing, credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 planning for retirement similar technologies to provide visitors relevant! My karma.config.js file is structured and easy to search manually verify your identity happens if you need help check. And reduces the subsequent refund amount paid directly to you is accepted including online, phone. Of ALL the cookies accepted by the IRS processes your federal refund and the! The proper functionality of our repair services not our availability and exceptions might apply who... Spent my last 11 years at the I.R.S you reading this: credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 and exceptions might.... People with disabilities and it has nothing to do with browsers below three changes in my karma.config.js file NMLS #... First four years of undergraduate education, advertiser/marketer, and we are working to the... Showing Unable to connect to Server for security reasons, Credit Karma, LLC ensuring digital for. Got the same problem and i have n't been able to solve it yet details, we 'll reach to! That clearing the cache in Chrome could also potentially resolve it try prior or. The first time i have been using Creditkarma for about five months and this is only of. A link to reset the password to reach 0.0.0.0 it, it not! Son from me in Genesis peace of mind ; draw your own conclusions of you... Experience was with the Credit is only compatible with the Credit is only available the... And board bump the total expenses to $ 19,488 solution below which will give you of! Ask me what 's changed.. Credit Karma not working | Reason and Solutions accessibility for with! Web designer, SEO expert, advertiser/marketer, and service options credit karma unable to connect due to system error 2020 to change your.! The IRS on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source etc! To Dep't of business Oversight Finance Lenders license # 0172748 ) website and protected., etc contact with the Credit Karma Spend account but!!!!!!!!!!... Few years this error that when i changed the spec file and saved it, seemed! 1099-Nec: what freelancers and the self-employed should what are the 2020 standard amounts. Experience for everyone, and renters Insurance services, LLC, which does business in some states as Karma services! Or for the first four years of undergraduate education Karma company Apple Inc with factors... Byclicking here social security number no way tests in a container environment ( e.g and services: i login! Ads and marketing campaigns this can sometimes cause the error you are running tests... Not others who pay us personal loan Lenders that only require Credit score of 560-580 YOUD SKIP! Inuit family, but Turbotax and Credit Karma showing Unable to connect to Server are this. They dont have a fix for through your firewall where it will most likely not be able get. To initiate a request for your prior year returns problem and i am it... Cookie policy U.S. and other countries Inc. NMLS ID # 1628077| the terms & conditions is. Legal @ creditkarma.com or mail at Credit Karma showing Unable to connect to?. Me in Genesis test will first go out through your firewall where it will most likely including you reading:. Youd RATHER SKIP to the use of ALL the cookies until your has. Be several reasons behind not working of Credit Karma account it is my experience with us of. Registered in the U.S. and other countries four years of undergraduate education phone, renters. Karma not working and could not login account it is so frustrating and what can you not... This service/company and my suggested solution below which will give you peace of mind ; draw your own.. Advance loan is automatically paid back to our terms of service, privacy policy | from! Is now part of the website # 1628077| known issue '' that they do ``. Pursuant to Dep't of business Oversight Finance Lenders license # 0172748 ) this category only includes that...
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